Sen. Don Gaetz has filled a bill with Sen. Mike Fasano that will stop public officials from collecting a paycheck and a pension, known as Double-dipping.
The bill was approved Tuesday by the Senate Community Affairs Committee.
According to St. Pete Times, more than 9,000 members of the retirement system, including more than 220 elected officials, are collecting pensions and paychecks. Some are collecting two pensions and a paycheck while earning credit toward a third pension. In Escambia County, Clerk of Court Ernie Lee Magaha and Tax Collector Janet Holley are getting pensions and paychecks. The Santa Rosa Co. Clerk of Court, Mary Johnson, is also a double-dipper.
Read more on the bill
Popularity: 4% [?]
http://www.pnj.com/article/20090618/NEWS01/90618021/1006/NEWS01/Law-aims-to-curb-double-dipping
[...] Sen. Don Gaetz has filled a bill with Sen. Mike Fasano that will stop public officials from collecti… [...]
Well no doubt I owe a great debt to Jay Jeff, the resident expert on DROP. What is your county, state, or city position man? But it is interested, and I have learned some things, I did not know. always good. But it appears we all agree, even Jay Jeff, the the DROP needs to be changed. Lets see if I got this right. When you go into the DROP, your retirement is calculated. That amount, not the amount of your salary, is paid into a fund, which you receive at the end of a 5 year period. In addition to the amount you receive, your retirement continues, with, I think, a guranteed 3% raise each year, not the cost of living increase granted social security. And is it not true, that the employee makes NO contribution to the retirement fund while working, the entire amount comes from the taxpayer? Very few programs operate like this. Most, now days, are built on you, the employee making a contribution each month and the employer making a contribution, but not thhis one. Why dont we just go to a system like that in private employment? How do we save money again? that part I have not figured out yet. but come on Jay, give it to me one more time, guy.
Finally!! Some people have posted that actually understand the DROP.
The loophole that he is trying to close is the exact one that Richburg, Al Coby, Janet Holley took advantage of. That is the abuse!!That is TRIPLE dipping.
The DROP is a good thing for the City and County, it does not cost them any money, in fact like one person said they can make money by paying you 4-6% and earned much more than that. In some years the City was earning over 15% on that money and paying the employees 4%.
The DROP was designed to get people to LEAVE to make way for new blood, but when they allow these people to squeeze through a loophole and get around the intent it makes the whole system look crooked and that is not fair to most hard working employees. Jayjeff described it best in #14.
[...] Rick’s Blog: “Gaetz aims to stop double-dipping” [...]
I totally agree, Anony. Let’s close the loopholes!
jayjeff wrote
snip
The DROP is a great program and was intended to help dedicated and underpaid civil servants manage a decent retirement.
snip
That’s the way it was sold, but not the way it was written. It was written with loopholes.
Facts’ facts are all true. The problem with the DROP is not the program itself, it benefits the average employee and the retirement fund. The problem is with people who abuse the program. Like Bob Richburg at NWFSC who retired, entered the DROP, completed it then talked the Board of Trustees into rehiring him at his old job. So now he has cashed out his DROP account, has full retirement pay and his regular full pay and a new retirement fund. There is nothing to stop him from entering the DROP a second time, complete his 5 years and get rehired a 3rd time!
That is double and triple dipping. That is NOT supposed to happen. The fix is simple, once you retire, your butt stays retired, period, end of argument. The rules of the DROP say you can’t be rehired once you retire UNLESS there is a compelling public need. That’s the loophole, the double dipper gets their buddies to sign of on the compelling public need and kazaam! You’re sitting fat.
If guys like Bob want to supplement their retirement pay, let them go be greeters at Wal-Mart.
1. Your drop money is your retirement that is deposited into an account. 2. Cities like the DROP because it saves them from paying your retirement costs. 3. Your DROP money is invested, you get up to 6.5 percent but in better times anything over and beyond that percent went back to the city ( they were making money on your money) 4. It is a sure fire way to get rid of older employees…you are gone after 5 years period (unless you are an administrator and weasel back in on contract) In these times people would probably stay and work, making a high salary if the DROP incentive to retire was not there. There are other perks to the city from the DROP but you get my drift.
Well, first of all you first claimed they paid out their DROP accounts at $400,000, now it’s $300,000. Fine, first of all they would have been paid that money whether or not they were in the DROP. The money that goes into their account is their regular retirement pay, calculated from the first day they enetered the DROP. All the program does is allow them to continue working for 5 years at the same salary and position.
A mid-level wonk making $50,000 a year retires after 30 years. His retirement is 48% of his final base salary, or $24,000 per year. Multiply that by 5 and it is $120,000. For someone to cash out their drop at $300,000 they would have had to be making nearly $150,000 per year, base salary. That is extremely high pay and unless you know several cabinet officers or former governors, your friends made nowhere near that from their DROP accounts.
Let me try this again. I am not the expert, just a tired taxpayer. I dont work for the state, and or county, but I know for a fact several folks who received in excess of 300thousand (a small amount?), when they retired. In addition, they receive their regular retirement, with a 3% increase, I beleive it is, guranteed each year, regardless of inflation. I notice in the paper this am, that Social Security may well not receive any increase in next few years, as result of low inflation, so Senator, at least cap the state retirement, at the going inflation rate. Nothing more, or put it on same rate as SS. But back to DROP. That money comes from somewhere., should I suggest the taxpayer? Why would a state empoloyee use his/her own funds, during their working career to create a retirement at end of service, when they know they will receive such a huge payouut from the taxpayer? no one would. Cap that then, at, say 100thousand, and no employee, regardless of salary can receive more than that amount at retirement. That work?
not at all, Smith. I am more than willing, I am not the expert, but nothing that I have seen, so far, stops from from beleiving this is one of the biggest rip offs ever put on the taxpayer. I go back, I KNOW, for a fact, at least 3 persons who have received, in excess of 300thousand as result of the DROP. AND, their retirement continues. that 300THOUSAND which thery received, came from tax payer funds. Not a bad deal. Take 300thousand and put it at 5%, and you get a nice yearly amount, so why should anyone, employed by the state, invest in a 401 type retirement from their own funds as they work, when they know this can be ? Not me, if I were an employee. This probram, SHOULD AT LEAST, be caped, e.g. no more than 100thousand for anyone regardless of the amount of their salary. and why should the state retirement system have an automatic 3% increase each year, rather than something like the COLA? Article today says Social Security will not receive any increase in next several years, because of the low inflation, does this mean the state employess can contine to receive their 3% increase each year, regardless of inflation? I think so. Look at that one Senator. Index it to inflation, at the most.
Doesnt it concern anyone that you have 9 persons here claiming different facts and they are all against the DROP?
Obviously none of you idiots are eligible for the DROP or you would be better educated as to how it is distributed. You have all given a differing opinion on the DROP money,and are all, with the exception of who cares, way off base.
Anonymous,
You said: “BUT IN ADDITION, an amount equal to their salary is placed in a fund”
That is total BS and hysterical anti-government trash talk. Read the rules and regs concerning the DROP on the FRS web site cited above.
What really happens is for 5 years, the employee receives his regular pay BUT the SMALL amount of money deducted from his salary that normally goes to the FRS goes into an IRA. NOT AN AMOUNT EQUAL TO HIS SALARY. For average workers it amounts to about 10k at the end of the 5 years.
I agree that we must stop the abuse of double dipping but get your facts straight, the DROP is a good program but is being abused by the fat cats at the top.
You are wrong about the DROP. The money that goes into a persons DROP is their retirement check, not the amount they are currently paid.
So if a person is making $60,000 per year and their pension is $30,000, the $30,000 goes into a their DROP account not the amount they are currently getting paid.
When a person enters the DROP they stop paying into their pension, but so does the government, so the government gets to have an employee working for which they do not have to contribute into a pension.
Cities and Counties save money with the DROP, where the problem arises is where administrative personnel (not the average worker) have added to their employment contract that they can work, DROP and work, and then after 5 years retire, draw their pension, DROP and a paycheck!!(Al Coby, Janet Holley come to mind) That is what costs money!
Just a small correction: in DROP, the amount of money the employee receives as retirement, not salary, is invested. The investment is guaranteed at 6.5% annually.
The DROP program only costs the employing agency the difference between starting salary for the position and what the DROP employee makes after 30 years of service. Really, the only way to save money would be to reduce the DROP participant’s salary to the base for the job, just as a new employee replacing the retiree would earn.
First I do not preceive 400thousand as a “small” amount of money. You may, but not me, and I know several, who have received that amount. Second, what I said, and you confirm, is that 5 years prior to retirement, the employee can ‘enter the DROP”, when they do that they continue to draw their salary during the 5 year period, BUT IN ADDITION, an amount equal to their salary is placed in a fund. At the end of the 5 year period, that is available to them, and their regular retirement kicks in. That allows a person making, 80thousand a year, and there are plenty of them, accrue 400thousand, which is payable upon retirement, and again, during that 5 year period they have drawn their regular paycheck. Is that right or not? It, to me is a deal NOT available to anyone else I know, including the feds.
The DROP program doesn’t work that way, Anonymous. For details go to the state retirement system site:
http://dms.myflorida.com/human_resource_support/retirement/employee_page/deferred_retirement_option_program_drop
When an employee enters the DROP, they are retired and their benefits are calculated as of that date. They continue to work for 5 years, during which time the employee contribution portion of their salary that would go to the state retirement plan, goes instead to an individual retirement account.
The employee DOES NOT draw retirement until the 5 years are up and he/she stops drawing a paycheck. At that time, the employee may cash out their DROP account. Again, it is only the portion of their salary that would have gone into the state retirement fund we are talking about, it’s a small amount of money.
The DROP is a great program and was intended to help dedicated and underpaid civil servants manage a decent retirement.
BUT
It has been abused to the point of absurdity but all that needs to be done is to FIX the LOOPHOLE that allows retirees to get their old jobs back during the DROP, which means for 5 years they are drawing a DOUBLE salary and at the end of 5 years they will be drawing full retirement plus full salary.
Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Close the loophole and prevent this gross abuse by the fat cats at the top of the system.
Sorry wanted to say, some people I know receive in excess of 400thousand when they retire. Why do they need a seperate retirement, which has an automatic adjustment each year, if they get such large payouts. Looks like enough to me.
Great!! Finally, someone is doing something. But, the senator, and others should look at the DROP provision, which allows a state employee to, during the last 5 years of service, draw his/her salary, and A LIKE AMOUNT IS CONTRIBUTED,TO a 401 type account. At retirement, the employee receives the amount in the fund, PLUS, his/her state retirement. Some employees, I know, Judges, senior No other business or government offers this. Stop that also, Sentator.
Good start! Let’s see if he proposes legislation to take away the obscene amount of money his buddy Bob Richburg and others swindled out of the system with the aid of his other buddy Ray Sansom.
common sense in government? Someone please tell me this isn’t an April Fool’s joke.